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Podcast: Sourdough Starters, Daily Bread, and the Goodness of Jesus (Abigail Dodds)

November 08, 2021 by: Crossway

This article is part of the The Crossway Podcast series.

Our Daily Bread

In today's episode, Abigail Dodds talks about what something as simple as the mixture of flour, water, and yeast can teach us about God, the Bible, and what it really means to be satisfied by our Savior.

Bread of Life

Bread of Life

Abigail Dodds

Abigail Dodds invites readers to ponder and celebrate God’s spiritual and physical provision in Christ through the hands-on art of bread making.

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Topics Addressed in This Interview:

00:48 - What Is a Sourdough Starter?

Matt Tully
Abigail, thank you so much for joining me again on The Crossway Podcast.

Abigail Dodds
Thanks for having me.

Matt Tully
Today we’re going to talk a little bit about the art of bread making and the Bible and how all of that relates to Jesus in a really interesting and profound way. Before we jump in, let’s start with you helping me understand something that’s happened in our culture over the last twelve months or so. I read that during the pandemic there has been a big surge and interest in sourdough starters. For us non-bakers out there, could you first explain what a sourdough starter is, and then why do you think that’s been so popular over the last year or so?

Abigail Dodds
A sourdough starter is just flour and water—that’s it! It’s just a little bit in a little jar or container. Usually you could start with something like fifty grams—which might be like a half a cup—of flour and water. Usually it’s equal parts, depending on the kind of starter you want. Basically, that flour and water just develops yeast in it over the course of about a week. It will start to get bubbly and active. And then that yeast—that flour and water—becomes the leaven for bread, so you would put that in your dough that you’re mixing up to make bread. That’s the thing that makes the dough rise.

Matt Tully
That concoction isn’t the bread itself; you’re actually putting that into a bread that you’re actually making in another step.

Abigail Dodds
Right. If you were to make bread without sourdough starter—if you were to make bread with what’s called commercial yeast, like the yeast that you buy in the store—it would look like little pellets, and you would put about a teaspoon in the flour and water that you’re mixing up for bread that you’re making with commercial yeast. The thing that you’re doing differently in sourdough is instead of adding that teaspoon of commercial yeast, you’re adding an amount of this leaven that actually looks like dough to your dough. It’s interesting.

Matt Tully
Why do you think it was so popular during the pandemic?

Abigail Dodds
I think people were stuck at home, and you’re like, What should I do? Maybe I’ll try to bake something. Everybody wants comfort food. You’re seeing pictures online of beautiful loaves of bread (because everybody is online). What you need to know is that the sourdough craze started over ten years ago; the artisan bread making craze has been happening for a long time. COVID restrictions and everybody being at home just amped it up and made it even more widespread, but there has been a very thriving culture of sourdough and bread making that has been happening for probably longer than ten years. Ten years ago is when I started to notice it, but it really burst on the scene with Pinterest and Instagram and beautiful pictures of bread.

Matt Tully
That maybe fits with that younger crowd. I saw a Tweet that said, “Sourdough starter is a Tamagotchi for people in their 30s.” I think the idea is that you have to cultivate it; you have to keep working on it to keep it going. Is that right?

Abigail Dodds
That’s right. You have to feed it every day. If you have it out on your counter—and this is probably where it gets boring for some people—you feed it every day. Or if it’s in your fridge, maybe you feed it once a week. So yes, it’s a little like having a pet.

04:39 - Why Bread Making?


Matt Tully
You said that you got into bread making about ten years or so ago. What was it that got you into that? As I read in your book, you were initially a little bit skeptical about that whole thing.

Abigail Dodds
Right. I was married at twenty-one, and we had our first child at twenty-two—that was seventeen plus years ago—and then we had several more children quickly after that. I was the mom of a lot of little kids, and I was in survival mode a lot of the time. I didn’t really know what I was doing. I thankfully had family around and had some help, but I was very much just getting by and trying to just make sure everyone had some food on their plate every day. I think that survival mode enabled me—or pushed me a little bit—towards the scoffing mindset that said, Why would someone who is trying to take care of a lot of kids, or who is a mom like me, have time for that kind of a thing? How could they possibly do that? Don’t they know you can buy bread at the grocery store? Those were the thoughts that would go through my head because I just felt maxed out.

Matt Tully
You were seeing other young moms doing a lot of bread making and that was kind of what your response was?

Abigail Dodds
Exactly. I was seeing moms that weren’t that different from me—some of them were older and in a little bit older stage than I was—but they were doing more, I guess, than what I was doing, so scoffing became a defense mechanism against not measuring up.

Matt Tully
You talk in your book about how that scoffing and cynicism related to bread making kind of paralleled a similar response when it came to your time in God’s word and doing devotions. Unpack that a little bit for us. What parallels did you see there?

Abigail Dodds
Just like these women who I’m looking at, I’m simultaneously admiring them and also having that proximity where all your weaknesses (or maybe the things that you’re not good at) shine forth. So, rather than seeing them as an inspiration, it’s more like seeing them as a threat. It’s just a really weird thing that our sin nature does when we get around people who are doing things differently than we are, or maybe they are just more capable but we don’t want to admit that. As I was then getting into Bible study or trying to read God’s word—and I had been a real consistent lover and avid reader of God’s word. All through my teen years and college, I felt like I could never get enough. As a young mom, I was very discombobulated with my schedule because it wasn’t really mine anymore. My life was revolving around nap times, and the nap times were always changing. Then another child would get thrown into the mix and I was just so tired. All these things that were new to my life really threw me out of whack in terms of my Bible reading, and my appetite for Bible reading was going down at that same time. It was a confluence of those things, and then hearing from people in my life—really godly people—different messages. One was the message of, You’re a young mom and you have a lot on your plate. Don’t be legalistic about it. It will be fine. This is just a season. Don’t worry about it. The other message was, This is God’s word! Who do you think you are to just skip it? You can do this! If you can eat lunch, you can read your Bible. So, it was those two messages, and instead of receiving those as both having some validity and walking forward imperfectly, I sort of took to just scoffing. I was like, I’ll sign up for a Bible study, but I’m going to give the sidelong glance at the woman who is either not doing her homework (because I’m at least getting some done) or the sidelong glance at the woman who is coming with all the highlighters and who has done extra work on her homework. I decided I was going to look at that like, Oh, so I guess you have a lot of spare time on your hands! I think that’s what happens when you become a scoffer. Nothing is off limits. You just create this ability to be above everything. It’s deadly; so, so deadly. That was happening in my spiritual life while also in my physical life of doing good works it was happening as well.

Matt Tully
You mentioned that you found that scoffing was in some way a defense mechanism. Unpack that a little bit more. I think that resonates with all of us, but why do you think it is that can be our response when we feel threatened?

Abigail Dodds
Because we don’t want to own that we’re sinners and that there are things that we actually could be doing differently to do better, or we simply don’t want to own that there are limits that we have that God may not have given to other people. There’s just a reality of humanity that some people will be better at some things than me. Some people will have more capability than me to get X amount of things done in a twenty-four hour day. On the one hand, you have to be humble with who God has made you to be and rejoice that he’s made someone else to do more than you; but then you can’t take that as an excuse to say, I’ll just sit back on my haunches and do nothing because I don’t have all the capabilities they do. You have to take what he’s given you and still max it out—to the glory of God, by his strength, with his grace. Not in an earning salvation kind of a way, but I just mean in the kind of way that says, I’m not going to squander the talents, even though they’re only one and that person got ten. I think that’s where the defense mechanism comes in is we would like to be other than what God’s made us to be. In my case, it’s been a lack of humility.

11:21 - Finding Meaning in Bread Making

Matt Tully
As you’ve moved along the road of bread making and gotten more knowledge and more abilities and experimented with things and learned the process for the last decade or so, have you noticed any other parallels with your efforts to get to know God in his word and be a more and more skillful reader of the Bible? Are there other things that parallel the process of learning bread making?

Abigail Dodds
Absolutely. I think one of the things that’s so wonderful and amazing about the world God has made is that he’s woven meaning into all of it. As I’m reading God’s word, and as that scoffing is melting away under the influence of God’s word and the goodness of it and my desperation for it, you begin to see that the stories of Scripture and the lessons that Jesus is teaching—so many of them are related to the physical world. Bread is this amazing flannel graph of the Christian life and who Jesus is. And then you start to see it everywhere. You just become awake to God’s world. The parable of the vineyard—all the different things that the Lord talks about relate somehow to the physicality of this world. You start to see the meaning. Bread is such a rich one to focus on and to spend your energy on because that’s who Jesus says he is. There is so much to explore there.

Matt Tully
Is there something about our American modern evangelical context that has often led us to neglect the physicality of God’s word and the importance of that stuff? You noted that was something that you learned, or was a surprising reality to you. Why was that surprising?

Abigail Dodds
One of my very favorite Bible passages is Colossians 3:1–4. It says, “If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.” That is still one of my favorite passages, but one of the ways that I misapplied that passage was to think that earthly things were earthy things, and those aren’t exactly the same thing. If you keep reading past verse four, which was always my favorite part that I would memorize and then I would be done, it defines what earthly things are. It’s things like sexual immorality. It lists a whole bunch of things. Those are the earthly things that we are not to be fixing our minds on and that we are not to be participating in. But earthy things—God made the world. “The earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof” (Ps. 24:1). Those things are actually pointers to God. It’s like Lewis says: there are sunbeams that point us in the direction of God if we can trace along them all the way up and back to the sun, we see more of who God is. Where that can go astray is that if you do not know God’s word, if you do not know the way he chooses to use the earth as metaphor for himself—for example, things of the earth like bread as metaphor for himself—you’ll miss it. You’ll go really weird, and people do.

Matt Tully
What’s an example of that? What do you mean by that?

Abigail Dodds
For instance, there are a lot of real nature lovers—people who absolutely love nature and value the earth or the environment—but who cannot find God in it. They cannot find the true and living God through merely accessing the world because they cannot understand the meaning without both the revelation of the world and the word. You’ve got to have the revelation of Jesus Christ through the Scriptures—the written word—in order to rightly understand all the metaphors in the world—like bread and a vineyard. That’s where knowledge of God’s word is absolutely essential if you want to start poking your head around in the metaphors of the world that are going to point you to Christ.

16:23 - The First Mention of Bread in the Bible

Matt Tully
Let’s take some time to walk through a few of those I guess what we would call “earthy metaphors” that are unpacked for us in God’s word. You hit on some of these in your book and I just pick out a few. The first one—the one that stands at the very beginning of the story of all of us—is going all the way back to the Garden of Eden. As God is talking to Adam and actually cursing him because of his sin, he mentions bread. That’s the first mention of bread in the Bible. Explain a little bit about what happens there and why it’s significant.

Abigail Dodds
I just think it’s fascinating, first of all, to note that that is the first mention of bread. Up to that point in the story, what we have is a garden full of fruit (or food of some sort). We have a garden full of food that’s growing, apparently on trees, but we haven’t really seen specifically what Adam and Eve have perhaps cultivated up to this point. We don’t know. I wonder if they were chopping up their apples and making apple pie yet. We just know that the food is coming to them off the tree and ready to eat, so it seems. But bread is clearly a cultivated food. Bread is something that you have to make. It doesn’t come to you on a tree. It doesn’t come to you growing out of the ground. You have to take those grains of wheat, grind them up, mix them with water, and there has to be leaven to make it rise. There are multiple processes involved to get your way to bread. I just find that interesting that it’s the cultivating, in a way, that’s cursed. When God says, “Your bread will come by the sweat of your brow” that cultivating process is going to be very difficult. I just find that interesting in and of itself. I also find it interesting when we see what happens when sin enters the world with Eve. The serpent comes to Eve and he twists God’s words and repeats back to her what the command was: Did God really say don’t eat from any tree? She had not said to him, God said don’t eat from any tree. She had said to him, God said don’t eat from this tree. So he already does a subtle exaggeration to make God look like a miser who won’t provide for her. So she is listening to the voice of the serpent, buying into what he’s saying, and ultimately she’s rejecting the provision of God in favor of becoming a self-provider. What’s really ironic is she thieves from her own garden. She steals something about which God has said, You can’t take that. It’s the garden that belongs to her. In one sense, everything in the garden is put there for them; and yet, one tree is prohibited. As a parent, we all understand there are things in the house that our children live in—it’s their house—but there are some things that are off-limits for them. Maybe for a time and a season; maybe for forever. We don’t know whether God was ever going to give her the fruit of that tree eventually, but she doesn’t believe that God is a good provider, so she provides for herself and for Adam. Then it’s the provision of bread that’s cursed. There’s something to that, I think, this mistrust of a provider. A mistrust of the one who is giving us good gifts. We don’t think that they’re good. Eve thought that he was not good in not giving her that one thing. So, mistrust of our provider is just a theme in Scripture that we need to examine and then look at in our own heart. Am I distrusting the provider?

20:49 - Manna from Heaven

Matt Tully
That relates to the next instance of bread that I was hoping to look at. Zooming ahead in the biblical story, we get to Israel coming out of slavery in Egypt, and then God, again, provides a certain kind of bread for them—bread from heaven—in the wilderness that the Israelites don’t love very much. Unpack manna for us.

Abigail Dodds
It is a repeat, in one sense, of what happened with Eve. It’s the story happening again and again. They get brought into the wilderness, which when we think of wilderness, we think of it being a bad place. But often in Scripture the wilderness is a place God brings you for safety. It isn’t always simply a place where there’s no food. Although, they weren’t eating food, so that was happening. God brings them to a place where he is going to provide for them, and rather than trust that—or even receive the provision he gives, which is miraculous bread raining down from heaven—they decide they’re sick of it. A rabble—a group—starts to form, and this small mob influences enough people that they are demanding from God that meat to them: We are sick and tired of this manna. We wish we were back in slavery in Egypt. We wish we had the meat and the vegetables and the leeks that we had there because it was so much better. This is the condition of the human heart. I really think what we are supposed to see in these stories that are true is that this is our condition. We are longing to go back to slavery when we cannot see that God’s provision is good and for us, and ultimately, his kindness is in it. Again, God doesn’t prevent them from getting what they beg for. I think this is, again, such a key point. Just like he didn’t stop Eve from taking the fruit, the Israelites demand meat, and he goes along with it. He says, You can have meat. You can have meat until it’s coming out of your noses. And that’s what happened. They had validation of their desires coming out of their noses. They had been through a traumatic experience, and I think if we were to frame this up in a modern way, we would be very sympathetic to them. We would say, They just went through so much hardship. They mush have been reeling. I’m sure they were psychologically really struggling. And yet, God holds them accountable for their sin and he judges them in that moment by giving them what they want. The judgement was giving them what they wanted. Again, what a lesson for us, that we can ask for things and sometimes the reception of those things is a judgement on us. God may give us what we want and it may not turn out at all the way we thought. That can be a judgement too. So that’s what happens to them, and he graciously continues to walk with them even after that. The irony of manna in the New Testament is that they beg for that same thing: If only we had manna coming down from heaven. Even how we rewrite history to think, If only we had manna coming from heaven now, we would surely believe, Jesus, that you are God’s Son.

24:42 - The Concept of Leaven in the New Testament

Matt Tully
Let’s jump ahead to the New Testament. Another example of not bread itself but I suppose a bread-related idea is the idea of leaven. It’s maybe not a term that’s used as often today, at least not if you’re in the bread making community, but Jesus often spoke of leaven, usually in a pretty negative sense, in the Gospels. What did he mean by that, and why was the idea of leaven such a helpful concept for him to use?

Abigail Dodds
Leaven is mainly spoken of, like you said, very negatively. It refers most often to the sin of hypocrisy. Leaven is something that he says is working through the scribes and the Pharisees through their hypocrisy. The thing about leaven is—I think I mentioned this at the beginning—it looks just like the dough. Leaven looks the same as dough, but it’s doing something. It’s got this yeast in it that works all the way through the dough, which is why the dough then rises. When you think about leaven—if you think about leaven as a negative, bad thing—it means that there’s something that looks the same as the good thing, but it’s working it’s way through—all the way through. Leaven is something that’s hidden. Leaven is hidden in a lump of dough; that’s one of the main qualities of leaven. You cannot see it. It works through and you can’t see it until you can, and by then it’s already worked all the way through. What I mean by until you can is that at some point that’s going to do something to the whole lump of dough. It’s going to rise; it’s going to be completely saturated with that leaven. It will have worked itself through. With hypocrisy, you can understand why Jesus would use that as a metaphor for hypocrisy because hypocrisy is hidden. That’s the whole point of hypocrisy. You’re putting a front up that looks one way when really, you’re something else on the inside. You’ve got the outside all washed and the inside full of dead bones. That’s what the Pharisees were doing and that’s why Jesus says this is the kind of leaven that the Pharisees are working through. It is a pretend, fake, false idea of what holiness is. He warns over and over against it because it takes spiritual discernment to see hypocrisy. You can’t see it with the eyes on your face.

Matt Tully
That’s the hidden nature of the leaven. Is there also the element, like with real leaven, it can infect the whole loaf? Can it expand in secret and ruin everything? Is that what he’s also getting at?

Abigail Dodds
Yes. That is exactly the warning that Jesus is giving, which is if you tolerate this kind of hypocrisy, it will spoil everything it touches. It is a powerfully active agent that does not stay put. It’s a spreading agent.

28:03 - Bethlehem: House of Bread

Matt Tully
Another really interesting connection to bread in the New Testament that I wasn’t aware of until I encountered it in what you wrote was that even the word Bethlehem has a connection to bread. Bethlehem is this really important town throughout the whole Bible—Old and New Testaments—but then obviously the birthplace of Jesus. What’s that connection there?

Abigail Dodds
Bethlehem means house of bread, and I think it really helps to start with the story of Ruth. If you remember, Ruth’s mother-in-law Naomi, who is an Israelite, she and her husband and family leave Bethlehem because it had become a place of famine. There was no bread in the house of bread. The house of bread was empty. They leave Bethlehem and they go to a non-Israelite country for nourishment and sustenance. Her sons marry non-Israelite women—Moabites—and in the loss of her husband and her sons, she gains these two daughters-in-law. One of them—Ruth—decides to come back with her to Bethlehem once the famine is over, so they head back to the house of bread—to Bethlehem—and they are provided for, of course, by Boaz. Ruth is allowed to glean in his field and it’s this incredible story of Ruth, this Moabite who is like the archetypal godly woman—and she’s not an Israelite! She is her own Proverbs 31 archetype laid out for all of us to see and admire. Here she is in the house of bread, being provided for by Boaz, being brought into the family, and then, low and behold, she is in the lineage of Jesus. It’s from that same house of bread that Jesus would be born—through that line of Ruth and Boaz. It really is the most beautiful, incredible foreshadowing of Jesus coming from the house of bread as the Bread of Life.

30:21 - Jesus: the Bread of Life

Matt Tully
Let’s jump into that. We’ve all heard Jesus called the Bread of Life, and maybe we can see some connections there. Maybe it connects to the idea of the Lord’s Table and Jesus saying, My body is bread; eat this, but help us understand why Jesus would pick that metaphor—bread—to be one of the primary ways that he identifies himself?

Abigail Dodds
One thing that’s interesting is that every culture kind of has a bread. Bread is a staple, even in cultures where there isn’t bread the same way that we might have it here in the States. There’s almost always a single-grain or simple-grain food that’s a real staple and real primary sustenance. I do think there’s a universality to bread across cultures that makes it something very understandable for all of us. We just know that we all eat these simple-grain foods, and we can’t eat meat all the time. It’s just one of those things that is daily, normal, everyday nourishment. There’s something very daily and repetitive about eating bread or rice or naan or whatever the bread formulation is for the given culture. I think that is really important to see—that this is cross-cultural; this applies everywhere. Then just understanding that nourishment aspect, that he is the provision of our lives. If you want to be alive, you have to eat the bread. You cannot live without the bread. That metaphor for Jesus being our life means that without daily sustenance from Jesus, we can’t live. When you go through and think that Jesus is our Creator—we’re told in Colossians that all things were made through him and for him—and this Creator, Jesus, who sustained us and gave us provision in creation, is continuing to sustain us by his own body forever for those who are in him. He is the sustenance and provision that we need for life. I think the dailiness is just key. You see that in the Lord’s Prayer: Give us this day our daily bread. What a picture to think about. We’re praying for our daily physical provision of bread so that we don’t starve, and then to later hear Jesus say, I’m the Bread. I’m the daily provision. It is a powerful, all-encompassing idea that shapes our whole life. Here’s one thing I just want to really emphasize: if we can’t make the connection between bread, Jesus, and Word of God, we’re going to fall short of receiving him as our sustenance. Jesus is the Bread, and he’s also the Word. He is the Word. God’s written word has to play an integral role in our understanding of Jesus as the bread. What does it look like right now for me to eat the bread? We can look at communion, of course. In communion, Jesus breaks bread and says, This is my body broken for you. But also, Jesus says that man doesn’t live by man alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. There is a real connection between spiritual sustenance from God’s word as the food that we eat each day—that this Bible that I have sitting on my chair here with me—is the sustenance that I will daily eat. I’m not taking communion everyday; I have to eat this word everyday, and Jesus is the Word and the Bread. I just think you’ve got to make that connection as well. That is the thing that will sustain you.

Matt Tully
One of the things that strikes me as you were talking is there’s this certain mundaneness about bread in our lives. Obviously, you are a skilled bread-maker, so some of the breads that you make—and that you give some recipes for in this book—look incredible; they do not look mundane. But there is a certain sense in which bread, generally, is a pretty obvious and basic thing that we’ve all had and maybe have on a very regular basis. Do you think there’s something to that? Not just is it common in all cultures across time, but it’s even very mundane and that actually might also be reflected in viewing God’s word as our bread. It’s something that should characterize our lives on a daily basis to some extent, and it’s just going to always be there.

Abigail Dodds
You saying that makes me think of that quote by Chesterton that talks about God as one who isn’t bored with repetition the way we are. He hasn’t “grown up.” He hasn’t become that kind of adult who is so bored by repetition, but it’s more like the way God says we must enter the kingdom as a child. A child delights in things being repeated. Their thing is, Do it again! Do it again!. There are books that I have read to my son so that I have every word memorized, and these are not short books!

Matt Tully
Every parent is nodding their head right now.

Abigail Dodds
Yes! There’s a repetition that children love that adults get sick of. I think just as God said, Only children can enter the kingdom, he has not, like so many adults, grown bored with his repetition. If he had, the sun would not be rising again tomorrow. If he had, all these things that we take for granted everyday in creation that he does again and again and again, he would have gotten bored of long ago. He is not like us that way. One of the examples that I give is just when you make a loaf of bread, the most excited people about that bread are the children. And they are not excited in the way that adults are; they’re excited in the way that they shove their mouths full of it. They’re stuffing it in. They’re loving it. They’re excited to eat it. They don’t even necessarily say thank you for you to fully understand that they appreciate this bread, because they’re asking for more. It’s not dutiful and it’s not forced; it’s just pure delight. It is pure delight. That is the kind of thing that God is working in us. It’s a reverse aging so that we can grow to be like children, so that as we’re eating the Bread of Life—Jesus—we are receiving him with the same delight that a child receives of a hot loaf of bread fresh out of the oven when mom says, Yes, put the honey on it. Go ahead and dig in even though it’s not cooled down. It’s that kind of delight that he’s working in us so that we can receive bread like that, not like an adult who’s bored, tired, sick of it, doesn’t really care, been there and done that—all those things that characterize the worst kind of adulthood. That’s not who he’s growing us to be. He’s growing us to be children.

Matt Tully
As you think about making bread, I’m wondering if you’ve got anything you’re working on right now or you’re planning to do in the near future, but has your study of the Bible and of this theme of bread throughout Scripture—culminating in Jesus, the Bread of Life—does that come to mind as you make bread these days? Does that color the experience all the more?

Abigail Dodds
All the time, yes. I think that’s so much of what becoming like a child does for us is we become awake to the world and to the meaning that God has woven into it. It’s a great tool also to teach the people around you. Making bread is a great way of inviting people, even in a way that is fairly non-threatening because people want to learn how to make bread. A lot of people want to learn how to make bread! What a tool for evangelism! Not in some kind of weird way, but I just mean in an organic, real way. Like, Hey, did you know that Jesus says, ‘I am the Bread’? Did you know that this has been around since the beginning? Did you know that God is the one who provides for us and that he has given himself as the bread for our whole life and for forever? There are so many ways of being able to share with your family, with your kids—what a lesson to get to teach kids—but then also with other people who just really want to learn how to make sourdough, or who just really want to know how to make a loaf of bread that’s easy. It is a way to share Christ. What a missed opportunity to teach someone how to make bread and never mention Jesus! He is the bread! Let’s not miss it, friends! Let’s make sure we’re teaching the way he taught. Those who are sisters in Christ, or who are future sisters in Christ, teach them the way he taught, by taking the physical thing in front of you and explaining what it really means!

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