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Podcast: The Unexpected Sorrows of Motherhood (Katie Faris)

January 16, 2023 by: Crossway

This article is part of the The Crossway Podcast series.

The Challenges of Parenting

In today's episode, Katie Faris talks about the love, joy, and heartache of motherhood and how moms can experience God's comfort and grace in the midst of it all.

God Is Still Good

God Is Still Good

Katie Faris

God Is Still Good invites women to experience God’s comfort and grace through the sorrows of motherhood and leads them to put their hope in Christ, despite the unexpected trials of life. 

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Topics Addressed in This Interview:

00:45 - High Levels of Stress

Matt Tully
Katie, thank you so much for joining me today on The Crossway Podcast.

Katie Faris
It’s my pleasure. Thanks so much for having me, Matt.

Matt Tully
It’s great to get to do this in person, sitting across the table. My wife and I have three young kids right now. They’re awesome and it’s such a fun stage of life, but as all parents know, life can feel a little bit busy sometimes, a little bit chaotic. We were just talking before we started recording about how our kids are home, both of us have kids who are in sports camps right now and doing things, and life can be stressful and busy. I was looking up some stats online about moms and stress, and I came across a survey from a few years ago that I thought was really interesting and I wanted to hear you reflect on it. There was a place that surveyed 7,000 moms and asked them questions about their stress levels, and there were a few stats that jumped out at me. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the most stressed out and 1 being not very stressed out at all, the survey found that the average mom put herself at an 8.5 on that survey. Does that sound about right to you?

Katie Faris
There is so much conversation, it seems to me, these days about mental health in general and conversation about stress levels. I think of even these last couple of years with the Covid pandemic and moms trying to figure out how to work from home and care for children, children’s schooling from home. I think the number of things that moms are trying to squeeze into their schedules and their children’s schedules has only increased in recent years. I don’t know that I’m the best judge of stress levels. I don’t know if moms have always had to manage a degree of stress, but yeah, if I had to, from my common mom’s bank of knowledge, take a guess, my stress level probably fluctuates around an eight to nine, pretty generally.

Matt Tully
Do you think that’s a pretty common experience for moms to feel like that?

Katie Faris
I think so. I think I wonder, though, has it always been that way or is that a new thing based on how things are in our society currently? I don’t know. It’s just a question.

Matt Tully
The survey also found that 3/4 of moms feel stressed about the stress that they’re feeling, which is just another one of those things where it can become this vicious cycle.

Katie Faris
And again, I’m not sure. Is that the chicken or the egg? Is it that we’re talking about stress and so moms are more aware of stress and then they’re identifying stress more, and that makes them more stressed? Or is it the stress that’s first? I don’t know.

03:30 - Unexpected Sorrow

Matt Tully
Stress is just one of those many challenges that come with motherhood, and some of them can be unexpected. Many of them are unexpected. There are many things about being a parent that are unexpected, but being a mom in particular can hit us in ways that we didn’t know were going to come. You open your book with this personal story that you share about something that your mom realized for the first time, and that even in the moment you were there you didn’t understand what it was, but now looking back, you kind of appreciate it differently. I wonder if you could share that story with us.

Katie Faris
Sure. I’d be happy to. And this really gets at the heart of my book—that recognition that there are unexpected sorrows in motherhood. I think sometimes when we go into motherhood we don’t even realize we have expectations. And then when we see our own personal motherhood experience play out, sometimes we’re all of a sudden faced with, Oh, this didn’t meet those expectations I didn’t know I had. This looks differently than I expected. And those expectations definitely intersected with sorrow for my mom. When I was born, the doctors ran lots of tests, but they noticed that in my back (in my spine) there were missing vertebrae, there were broken vertebrae, and so I just did not have a “normal” spine. And I was diagnosed with something called kyphoscoliosis, which is a curvature of the back. It’s a combination of kyphosis, which occurs in one direction, and scoliosis, which occurs in another direction. There were a lot of questions early on. Doctors didn’t know what my capabilities would be. Would I learn to crawl? Would I learn to crawl on a normal schedule? Would I walk, or would I be in a wheelchair? There were just a lot of unknowns. The degree of my curvature was so significant that they pretty much guaranteed my mom that I would have surgery at a young age at some point. And there was always that question when that surgery happened—and this is the late seventies—would that then lock my curve, or my vertebrae, in a particular position that would limit my growth? So there were many, many unknowns. My parents were—and I’ll speak about both of them—my dad had grown up going to church, but my mom was really a new believer when I was born. And the Lord really used this experience of my serious medical diagnosis to draw my parents deeper into their church family, to have them press into God’s word, and to draw them ultimately deeper into their relationship with the Lord.

Matt Tully
That’s wonderful, but that’s not always what happens.

Katie Faris
No, it’s so true. We can so quickly spiral when we face these unexpected things. And I’m not saying my parents did this perfectly; it was very hard. There was a lot of grief. It was God’s kindness that led them where he did and led them where they went. My mom does tell a story—and this is the story that she told me that day at our kitchen table—she was filling in some of these gaps. Sometimes when we’re moms, we carry these stories for our children and then at some point, like in my mom’s situation, we realized later on, Oh my goodness! These stories that for me are so real—

Matt Tully
Hearing the doctor say, Your daughter has this severe condition—that’s a heavy thing for her to bear.

Katie Faris
Exactly. How could she ever forget that? But realizing that even though I was present, I was probably even in the room for some of those conversations, I was a newborn and I didn’t remember those things. And so as my mom started telling me her version of the story that was really our story, part of where she was able to lead me then is how God met her in that time. So by the time I heard the story, it wasn’t just those early first days of trying to process all this grief, but she was able to lead me to where God led her: to a place of really surrendering our story—my back, my future, my childhood to the Lord—and then how God met her in that and really graciously lifted some of those very dark clouds that were looming over those early years of motherhood for her.

Matt Tully
It’s so interesting because we talk to parents—mothers and fathers, anyone who’s been a parent for a long time—and we all know that they all are going to face these difficult things, these unexpected sorrows, as you call them. And yet the reality seems that it still is always unexpected for us when it happens to us. And you talked about how expectations can often be one thing, and then reality hits. God’s plan for us comes and it catches us by surprise. What were some of the expectations that you feel like you had going into motherhood that maybe weren’t accurate?

Katie Faris
Sure. I love to read. I like, to a degree, to do research and get as much information up front as possible. I really do wish that there were the perfect manual or playbook for motherhood. I read quite a bit before my first child was born. I didn’t know of anyone in my family—my mom, my grandmother—who’d ever needed a cesarean section, so I just kind of skipped those sections of the baby books. And so when I needed an emergency c-section, immediately I was in unfamiliar territory. This was something I didn’t foresee needing. And then from there, my mom breastfed me and my four siblings. For me, it always just looked easy, like there was no issue there. And when my son was tongue tied, feeding came at great pain and was not easy. It was painful for me and painful for him. And I had this idealized, idealistic vision of sitting and rocking with my baby and just enjoying cuddling my little one. And it’s not that we never got to do that, but it just was not the overall picture of what my early motherhood experience was.

Matt Tully
Where do those pictures come from? Where do these expectations come from? Because it feels like everyone says that, It was not quite what I was hoping. It was wonderful in so many ways, but it was so hard in so many ways. Why do we have these expectations?

Katie Faris
It’s a great question. I’m not sure. I don’t know if we tend to see other people through a different lens. Maybe when we see another mom we’re only seeing certain parts of her experience, only hearing parts of the story. I don’t know. It’s a great question. Where it leads me is to think about the value of younger women spending time with older women in a teaching context but also just in her home being, in her presence, being part of her life so that these younger women can maybe see some of that full-orbed picture of motherhood.

Matt Tully
A lot of people refer to Generation Z—I think those are people who were born after 1997 and maybe up through 2012—as the “Instagram generation.” What impact has something like Instagram had on how we view motherhood?

Katie Faris
You were asking about stress earlier, and I think this kind of can tie into that as well. There’s this idea of an Insta-world where everything looks perfect. You’re putting your best face forward, and so that’s what other people see and that’s what they’re comparing themselves to because we naturally compare ourselves to one another. And then there’s also this stress to try to live up to that ourselves and somehow achieve that. I think Instagram and social media can be helpful in so many ways, but I think these are definitely some areas where it can be unhelpful.

12:14 - A Spectrum of Sorrows

Matt Tully
The title of your book references the unexpected sorrows of motherhood. I wonder if you could share what some of those have been for you. We’ve talked about, generally, expectations not always lining up, but what are some of the particular sorrows that you have faced?

Katie Faris
Sorrows for another woman could look very different. There’s a broad spectrum of sorrows. With a spectrum, some are more severe than others. Some are going to last longer than others. Some of the sorrows that we face as moms, we may face until we get to heaven. So, there’s a whole gamut of sorrows that moms can face, but for me in particular, one of the sorrows that I go back to really had to do with a medical diagnosis for three of my children. It started with one child being sick, and then having blood work and that blood work not resolving. Even though he eventually got better, some of his numbers were still off and he was eventually diagnosed with this serious medical condition. Because it was genetic, we tested the entire family and then learned that two more of our children had this condition. It’s one that can impact the liver and the lungs, but it’s over time. So, you might not see it in childhood years, but there’s this potential for very serious disease over time. My husband and I had already been through so many challenges. My oldest was seven at the time, so we had been through the toddler years. We had faced spilled glue on the floor and black sharpie on our couch—things that I guess I think of as normal experiences.

Matt Tully
You kind of expected those.

Katie Faris
I kind of expected to encounter the Cheerios spilled on the floor, that kind of thing. But I had never expected that three of my children would have a genetic condition that I’d never heard of before and that I could barely pronounce. That was really the day, when I got the diagnosis of those additional two children, I was already grieving the first, but that’s the one that just toppled me. I was like, Okay, I’m already grieving one, and now I don’t feel like I’m just grieving three; I feel like I’m grieving this to some exponential power. I don’t know how to process this. I don’t know what to do. But by God’s grace, I hung up the phone with the children’s pediatrician after he told me the news, I called my husband, he came home, I shared the news with him, and we just wept together. And again, by God’s grace, he just led us to, in that moment, pray and to give this unexpected surprise chapter in our family story over to him and just invite him into it the same way we’d invited him into our marriage, the same way we had invited him into our family when we dedicated our children. God, this doesn’t make sense to us. We don’t know what you’re doing here, but can you somehow meet us here and work good out of this work for your glory in this?

Matt Tully
So when you heard that diagnosis, had you already heard from your mom and talked with your mom about her experience of getting your diagnosis and processing that and the testimony to God’s faithfulness in that?

Katie Faris
I had, yes. That conversation with my mom happened when I was a teenager, and so this other situation was probably was almost twenty years later. So I did have her example of faith that had gone before me, but I think in that moment when I was walking through my own grief, I don’t think I went there as quickly, to my mom and our story. I think that has been more just over time recognizing some of the similarities and putting this into the bigger picture of sorrow being a part of the package of motherhood.

Matt Tully
On that front, you write in the book, “Motherhood is much more than suffering, but it’s not less, and there’s a particular kind of suffering that moms experience.” You’ve already established that this suffering can look like many different things, but what would you say is the common thread to this particular kind of suffering that moms experience?

Katie Faris
I think you see it as early as pregnancy. Not all babies survive the womb. There’s already risk involved. There’s risk to a woman’s body. There's a risk to this new life. Life is fragile and it’s a beautiful gift, but I think because of the fall, because we live in a broken world, from the very beginning, motherhood doesn’t always look the way it was originally intended. By its very nature, it’s risky and there’s labor, whether it’s labor through a natural birth delivery or a C-section (like my first experience) or even an extended adoption process, which can bring its own challenges and questions and trials. I think from the very start of motherhood, every mother has this experience of some form of suffering. And then it’s a constant letting go. You give your heart, you love this child, but then that process of slowly trusting this child to the Lord and trusting the Lord with your child, whether it’s sending that child off to a school, or eventually there’s leaving a child at college someday or their first job, whatever that looks like.

Matt Tully
I can’t even think about that yet.

Katie Faris
No, no! My oldest is 16, so we’re close. I think through that process there is just always a letting go. There’s this loss that’s just written into motherhood. But it’s not just loss. Like you said, there’s a joy too. You’re releasing someone, and you’ve had the wonderful privilege of investing your love and your energy into this life.

Matt Tully
It’s so ironic to me sometimes because, as Christians, we say we believe—and we do believe—that God is sovereign over our kids and his hands are more sure and secure than ours are and ever could be. And yet it can be so hard to, as you say, let go of our kids and entrust them to him. Have you struggled with that, to actually think and feel the way we say we believe?

Katie Faris
Absolutely! We’re both recording this podcast at a conference right now that we both had to travel to. So even saying goodbye to my kids for this extended time period, I do struggle with just the fact that they’re in someone else’s hands while I’m away. What if something happens on the plane and I don’t see them again? I have to trust them to the Lord. So this is a regular thing for me.

19:59 - Will This Ever Get Better?

Matt Tully
We’re talking about unexpected sorrows in particular, and some of them are maybe the more mundane trials and struggles and unmet expectations. But sometimes, as in your story and many other stories, whether it’s a miscarriage or prolonged infertility or something else really traumatic that happens, the sorrows can be really deep and can prompt really deep, painful grief. I think one of the things that I’ve heard over the years from people who are in the midst of really deep grief, especially when it relates to their children, is just wondering if that grief will ever get better, if it will ever lift, if things will ever return to something closer to a normal existence. And the thought of that not happening is really scary and overwhelming in itself. Have you ever wrestled with that fear or walked alongside other women who have wondered about that?

Katie Faris
I think you did a really good job of describing that kind of fear. When we’re talking about fear, there are all different kinds of fear. A good fear in fearing the Lord, but we can fear circumstances. I think we can especially fear the future. Is this grief ever going to lift? What is the future going to look like for my child who’s in a particular struggle? That’s definitely a fear that I’ve experienced. I remember in those first months after my children’s diagnosis, one of my children who was diagnosed at the time was a newborn. And so I just remember weeping and just wondering, What is life going to be like for this child? I remember jumping very hard, or very far, into the future with my picture, my imagining, of what that would be. And by God’s grace, I’m very grateful that over the years—it’s been nine years since my children’s diagnosis—and there have been many challenges. I think of our schedule alone—adding specialists, adding medications into our family life, which comes with its own losses and griefs. All that to say, it’s been nine years of learning and seeing the Lord be faithful. So I think where we are right now, I can testify to God’s faithfulness. But we still very much live in the middle of our story, and so there’s still this unknown of what’s going to happen in the future, just by the definition of what my children experience. And so I can definitely relate to the parent who just feels like this grief is never going to lift. It shows up at unexpected times and in unexpected ways. I think a comfort there is we really do find comfort in and hope in looking to the end of the story. For believing women, we know the end of the story. No matter how hard or difficult the chapter that we’re living in right now is, we know the end of the story is very good. We know that we’re going to be with Jesus and he’s going to wipe away these tears, but sometimes I think it can be challenging to connect the end of the story to where we live right now.

Matt Tully
That hope feels so distant.

Katie Faris
And it’s a good hope and it’s a real hope, and if I could just share another story real briefly. I’m remembering two years after our children’s diagnosis, how we were still in that time of adjusting. One of my children had an additional medical diagnosis that was added to the first one, and so we were checking blood sugars. I was having to check on her in the middle of the night at different times, and it was just a very intense season. I remember in that time going for a walk at one point and the Lord just bringing Psalm 23 to minister to my heart and helping me recognize I was afraid of something—something very real. David was saying, I don’t have to be afraid because there’s someone who’s with me here. And I just remember the Lord using that psalm to speak to my heart, and even just bring the gospel to bear there. So all that to say, I think that sometimes the grief is a process, but I think we also want to be patient and trust that the Lord will meet us in his time. That was two years in, and I remember the Lord had a very specific word from Scripture that ministered to my heart and brought hope in a dark time. And so just trusting that however heavy the grief is, however dark the road seems in a particular season, don’t give up reaching out to God. Don’t give up reading his word. Don’t stop listening to worship music and praising him. Don’t stop going to church. Let the word dwell in you, even when the feelings don’t line up. And trust that in the right time the Lord is going to speak to you and meet you in this place, as he promises to do.

25:18 - Advice for Husbands

Matt Tully
That’s so helpful. I wonder if you could speak to husbands right now—husbands and fathers who might be listening. What are some things that your husband did for you and with you that has been helpful to you through the unexpected sorrows of motherhood?

Katie Faris
I love that you asked this question. Thank you. I hope that someday my husband gets to share his side of the story, because not only has he born the burden of his own grief with this with our children, but he’s also led me and led our family through this grief, and I think he has done an amazing job. I just said keep going to church. There were times I didn’t want to go to church in different sorrows, but he was so faithful to continue to lead me to the Lord. So, for the husband who’s listening, I would just encourage you to be patient with your wife, to keep loving her the way you always have, to enter into this sorrow together as much as possible. I’m so grateful that day that I got that phone call that my husband recognized that moment and its significance, and he dropped his work and he came right home and he sat with me.

Matt Tully
So even that small thing—

Katie Faris
Even that small thing.

Matt Tully
—means a huge amount to you.

Katie Faris
It meant a huge difference in our story because we walked this together. Had he not done that, not only would it change the story that I’m telling you today, but I think it would’ve changed how I saw him and how safe I felt in communicating my grief along the way. So, he has done a wonderful job of cherishing me and walking with me through this, and I’m so grateful.

27:11 - The Lie and Truth Chart

Matt Tully
Maybe as a last question, in your book, you have a lie and truth chart that you include. That is meant to be a very practical, helpful tool for holding on to the hope that we have in the midst of these unexpected sorrows. I wonder if you could just briefly explain what you’re trying to do there and what that chart entails.

Katie Faris
Sure. This grew out of the recognition, at one point in my early motherhood, that I was believing functional lies and didn’t even necessarily realize I was believing these lies. But I think especially in our trials related to motherhood, there are many lies that we’re tempted to believe about God, about his character, about his promises, about his purposes in our suffering. And this chart really is an attempt to take some of the common lies that women are tempted to believe, and instead of letting those lies influence how we see Scripture, instead of mapping our feelings or our circumstances onto God’s word, it’s really an attempt to take God’s word and map it onto our experiences and these lies that we’re tempted to believe. So, the chart itself, I do hope it’s practical. I have a copy of it hanging up in my laundry room on the wall so that I can check it right in the middle of a busy day. It’s set up with three columns. There’s the lie column, the truth column, and then the Scripture column.

Matt Tully
We’ll actually make this available for download. You can look at the show notes and find a link to download this, print it out, and put it up on the wall as well. But sorry, keep going though.

Katie Faris
I hope it’s very practical. It’s been a helpful tool for me because I think sometimes, especially when we’re moms and sometimes, like in my situation, maybe there’s a medical situation where there is more physical isolation as well, we can live in our heads a lot. And so I think we want truths that are going to be speaking to those things that as Marlon Lloyd-Jones talks about, how our selves can be talking to us. And sometimes we need to take Scripture and speak to our selves. And so it’s a way to just do that.

Matt Tully
Katie, thank you so much for talking with us today and I think encouraging all of us, but especially moms, when they face those unexpected sorrows of motherhood—that they will face and that we all do face in life. We appreciate it.

Katie Faris
My pleasure. Again, thank you so much.

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