Richard Gaffin and Tommy Keene on Pentecost (Season 2, Episode 4)

July 24, 2024 by: Nancy Guthrie

This article is part of the Conversations on the Bible with Nancy Guthrie series.

The Significance of Pentecost

Join Nancy Guthrie as she talks with professors Richard Gaffin and Thomas Keene about the book of Acts and primarily about Pentecost and its meaning for the early church and for us today.

Saved

Saved

Nancy Guthrie

Saved, by bestselling author Nancy Guthrie, gives individuals and small groups a friendly, theologically reliable, and robust guide to understanding the book of Acts.

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Topics Addressed in This Interview:

00:56 - The Crucial Connection between Pentecost and the Baptism of Jesus

Nancy Guthrie
Welcome to Season 2 of Conversations on the Bible with Nancy Guthrie. I’m Nancy Guthrie, author of Saved: Experiencing the Promise of the Book of Acts. In the book of Acts, we see the enthroned Lord Jesus at work by his Spirit through his apostles. They are taking the message that salvation is available to all who will call upon the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. And it is accomplishing its intended purpose—people are being saved. On this podcast, I’m having conversations with people who can help us to see more clearly the ways in which we see God working out his salvation purposes in the world, particularly in the pages of the book of Acts. And my guest today is Dr. Richard Gaffin, Jr. Dr. Gaffin is emeritus professor of biblical and systematic theology at Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, where he taught for over forty years until his retirement in 2010. He now lives in the Washington, D. C. area. And you may know him as the translator of Geerhardus Vos’ Reformed Dogmatics. We’re going to talk especially about a little book he wrote way back in 1979, but which is so profound. That book is Perspectives on Pentecost. He has a more recent book published by Crossway in 2022 called In the Fullness of Time: An Introduction to the Biblical Theology of Acts and Paul. And also joining us for this conversation is Dr. Thomas Keene. Dr. Keene is associate professor of New Testament and academic dean at Reformed Theological Seminary in Washington, D. C. He has a great website with interesting articles called signandshadow.com. And I love this subtitle, Tommy, “Theology Seeking Eschatology.” And he was one of Dr. Gaffin’s students at Westminster Theological Seminary. So I just feel very privileged to be sitting here with both Dr. Gaffin and Dr. Keene. Dr. Gaffin, thank you for being willing to have this conversation with us.

Richard Gaffin
Well, it’s my great privilege to be with you today and to meet you, Nancy, for the first time, and to see my old friend, Tommy.

Nancy Guthrie
And Dr. Keene, thank you for being willing to take part in this.

Tommy Keene
It’s a privilege.

Nancy Guthrie
Now, I asked Dr. Gaffin what he remembered about you from being his student. And what was it you told me, Dr. Gaffin?

Richard Gaffin
That he was a memorable student, and that you could exegete that either way you wanted.

Tommy Keene
Appropriately ambiguous.

Richard Gaffin
No, I appreciated my contact with Tommy from the first contact we had on campus, and since we’re together now in the D. C. area, we’re able to get together frequently. I appreciate that very much.

Nancy Guthrie
Regular breakfasts together.

Richard Gaffin
Regular breakfasts.

Nancy Guthrie
That’s pretty awesome. Well, it’s so fun to get to talk with both of you who know so much about the book of Acts. And we’re going to focus in this episode primarily on Pentecost and its meaning. When we begin the book of Acts in Acts chapter 1, we read that Jesus has commanded the apostles to wait in Jerusalem. He tells them specifically what they’re waiting for, that they’re waiting for the promise of the Father. And he continues that by saying, “For John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” So Dr. Gaffin, perhaps we can start this way: Why does Jesus connect what’s about to happen at Pentecost with the baptism for repentance that John the Baptist practiced? Then also, how is what happened at Pentecost connected to John’s baptism of Jesus? Is it fair to ask both of those questions? They’re somewhat related, I suppose.

Richard Gaffin
Yeah, they’re definitely related. I don’t think it can be overstated the importance of what Jesus is doing in Acts 1:5 when he’s saying to wait for what’s going to take place on the day of Pentecost, and connecting that then to John’s ministry and particularly John’s prophecy. “I’m not the Messiah,” he says back in Luke 3, “but the one coming after me”—that’s a definite implicit reference to Christ—“he is the Messiah, and he is going to be the Holy Spirit and fire baptizer.” And so what takes place on the day of Pentecost is the fulfillment of that prophecy of John. So that’s how the two are related. John is the prophet, and Jesus is the fulfillment of that prophecy. Now, maybe I could just add further, because I think this is so important. As Luke records a summary of John’s ministry in Luke 3, it’s important to see that it’s just not an incidental, offhand comment—“Well, among other things, I baptized with water and he will baptize with the Holy Spirit.” But I think it’s very fair to say, and a lot of people miss this, that John’s prophecy is saying, in effect, “This is all about what the Messiah has come to do. The work of the Messiah is not finished until the prophecy is fulfilled, so far as the church is concerned, baptizing with the Holy Spirit and fire, as that’s involved at Pentecost.” At the risk of saying something that can be misunderstood, and I want to avoid the misunderstanding, when Jesus says “It is finished” on the cross, that is true. That’s preciously true so far as a sacrifice for sin needing to be made. But that statement has to be qualified. It’s so important to always keep a clear distinction between redemption accomplished, once for all, and redemption applied. Some of your listeners will know John Murray’s book, which I can’t commend too highly, addressing the fullness of our salvation, but it’s important to keep that distinction. So I think where a lot of folk today go wrong on dealing with the book of Acts and understanding Pentecost, they tend to see it as belonging to redemption applied. And what I’m wanting to emphasize in this run-on response to your question, is that what takes place on the day of Pentecost is the fulfillment of John’s prophecy, looking to the ministry of Christ as a whole, what Christ came to accomplish. That once-for-all work is not completed until the Spirit is given on the day of Pentecost. It belongs to redemption accomplished. The Spirit given at Pentecost can be seen as the reward that Jesus secured by his obedience unto death, by his earthly ministry. That connects with how it’s related to Jesus’ own baptism at the Jordan. There Jesus is endowed by the Spirit to accomplish what he was sent into the world to do, because that demanded his assumed humanity. He was in need of the Holy Spirit. It wasn’t as if his deity canceled out any need that he had, having taken on a genuine human nature. Jesus is of course the Christ, the coming Messiah from the moment of his conception. Luke makes that clear (Luke 1:35). But what took place at the Jordan is the initiation of the public phase of Jesus’ earthly ministry. You can see it as his open messianic coronation. There he receives the Spirit as the necessary endowment for the messianic work that lies before him and culminates on the cross. The ascension—remember how Peter puts it in Acts 2 when he’s commenting on what’s taking place on the day of Pentecost. He draws attention to the death and the resurrection, and he accents particularly the resurrection—“but God raised him from the dead.” But then he continues, “Having ascended to the right hand of the Father, there he has received from the Father the promise of the Spirit.” Well, didn’t he receive the Spirit at the Jordan? Yes. But the point is, now he receives the Spirit that he has acquired the right for. Because he was obedient unto death, he satisfied the just wrath of the Father, and the Father rewards him with life in his resurrection. And he is then, in his resurrection, the “life-giving spirit,” as Paul will say, and he shares with his people. Calvin has the neatest expression. In book two of the Institutes, he’s been dealing with redemption accomplished—everything that Christ did. Then, he starts, in the second sentence of book three, by saying, “Everything that Christ did for the salvation of the human race is of no value as long as he remains outside of us.” Calvin is there drawing our attention that what unites the once-for-all accomplishment of our salvation, its ongoing application, is our union with Christ. Pentecost means that the salvation acquired and accomplished by Christ, he is now going to share with his people, particularly his resurrection life—the Holy Spirit.

Tommy Keene
I think that redemption accomplished focus, that redemptive historical focus, was eye opening for me as a student. Jesus is the man of the Spirit, and Luke is very clearly trying to, from beginning to end in his two parts, present Jesus as the man of the Spirit. He’s born because the Spirit overshadows him. He’s baptized, and in the baptism of John, he receives the Spirit in fullness. He receives it in his resurrection. And this, from Peter’s perspective in Acts 2, this is the thing that we have been hoping for. This is why we’re quoting Joel in that passage. What we’ve been waiting for is the fullness of the Spirit to come. And this is that act. This is that moment. John’s baptism is a shadow, a sign, a picture, a pointer to that receiving of the Spirit. And Jesus then receives and comes into that full possession of the Spirit and then gives it to us and pours it out onto us. Back to your opening and what you were saying, Dr. Gaffin, the idea that this is the continued work of Jesus. Well, how is that possible, since he, as soon as verse 14, he will be gone. It’s possible because it’s the work of his Spirit through the apostles to found the church and establish his people worldwide, to the ends of the earth.

13:18 - The Significance of the Sound of Wind and the Tongues of Fire

Nancy Guthrie
When we get into Acts 2, they are gathered in that upper room. There’s 120 of them. And we have these phenomena. There’s the sound of wind, it says. It doesn’t say there was wind; it’s the sound of wind. And then it says there are “divided tongues as of fire,” which is interesting wording. So you’ve got these phenomena of a roaring sound of wind and then not just fire—we’ve seen fire before when God has come down to dwell in the tabernacle and the temple—but this time specifically, divided tongues as of fire. Will you just talk about those phenomena a little bit at Pentecost and the significance of those?

Richard Gaffin
Now, remember the terms of John’s prophecy: “He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” If you go back in the Luke 3 passage, you’ll see that the way the prophecy continues when John says of the Christ to come, “he will baptize with Holy Spirit and fire,” he adds immediately that in his hand is the winnowing fork, and he’s going to separate the wheat from the chaff. Now, people have argued and there are differences of opinion here. Are there two baptisms being described, one positive and one negative? Or is it a single baptism with a dual outcome? And my view would be the latter. The fire has a double force to it. It connotes what can be purifying, but also in the context of Luke’s passage, it’s clearly destructive. The unrighteous, the unrepentant are going to be burnt up like the chaff. The fire tongues at Pentecost are a sign that the judgment sinners like you and I deserve, that God’s people of themselves deserve, that fire of judgment has been born by Christ for us. There’s going to be a future aspect to the fulfillment of John’s prophecy. That’s going to take place when Christ returns, when that fiery judgment consuming the chaff is going to be realized, poured out on those who are never repenting. I think the fire, because of the way in which fire as a figure and an image has multiple aspects, it can be seen as purifying. The tongues are described as hovering. And the fire of the judgment that you and I deserve has been mitigated. It’s domesticated fire, you might say, as a sign at pentecost.

Nancy Guthrie
What do you think, Tommy, about both the wind and the fire?

Tommy Keene
My head went to 1 Peter. Are we allowed to talk about 1 Peter?

Nancy Guthrie
Let’s do.

Tommy Keene
When you were talking about the multi-referential, fire works at so many different levels. The refiner’s fire as a sign of judgment, winnowing fork. Peter does all of those things in 1 Peter. Peter, who’s about to get up and speak and sees these tongues of fire, I think is making all of these Old Testament connections that you are bringing out. On the one hand, it’s the fire that tests us (1 Pet. 1:7). Our faith is tested, as gold is tested by fire. And as it’s tested, it’s proven authentic. And as it’s proven authentic, we have occasion for joy that he will shield us and guide us and guard us until his salvation is revealed in the last day. And then 1 Peter 4: “Do not be surprised at the fiery trial . . . “—he’s probably referencing Micah there—“that has come to test you, for judgment has begun in the church.” And so the church is, through the power of the Spirit, the church is strengthened, purified, prepared for the salvation that is yet to be revealed. So the Spirit is doing all of that.

Nancy Guthrie
We could go on to 2 Peter 2, couldn’t we, in terms of fire?

Tommy Keene
Please do.

Nancy Guthrie
In 2 Peter he talks about this fire that’s going to, in a sense, consume the earth, which has given many people the thought this creation is going to burn up. That’s where we see this understanding of fire having both a judgmental but also a purifying purpose. We can read that in 2 Peter and say this is speaking of the purification of all of creation.

Tommy Keene
And there it’s also new birth, and it’s coupled with water and baptism. All of those things.

Nancy Guthrie
All of those images are all together there.

Tommy Keene
He specifically says the first world, the first age, the first eon was judged and then reborn by water. The second age is going to be judged and reborn by fire. So that purifying, new life image as well.

18:31 - Why Did Jesus Say It Was Good for Him to Go Away?

Nancy Guthrie
Back in the Gospels, Jesus had said to the disciples, “It is good that I’m going to go” (John 16:7). And he says it’s good because there’s another helper that’s going to come that he’s going to send. But then he also makes the statement, “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.” And Dr. Gaffin, those can seem like two statements that we don’t quite know how to reconcile. And yet understanding the connection between the Holy Spirit and Jesus helps us with that, doesn’t it?

Richard Gaffin
Yes, very definitely. You’re raising the large and very important question of the relationship between Christ and the Spirit, particularly in the life of the church, in the life of the individual believer. I’d like to direct our attention particularly to a statement of Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:45 where he says the last Adam became “life-giving spirit.” If I could maybe just express here a lifelong frustration. I think that the reference there is undeniably, as many commentators recognize, people that I learned this from for the first time, like John Murray and Herman Bavinck and Geerhardus Vos, just to name several, see that the reference there is to the Holy Spirit. And my frustration that I mentioned is that the English translations, particularly the ones that we justifiably make the most use of (the NIV, ESV, New King James, and others could be mentioned), they all have “spirit” with a lowercase s. And I would love that the translation traditions would begin to capitalize that reference to the Spirit. It’s important that this is in the context of 1 Corinthians 15, where Paul is talking about the resurrection, and how Christ particularly is the first fruits of the resurrection harvest that all believers will share in bodily when he returns. It’s not just any, without further qualification, Christ, but the last Adam of who became life-giving Spirit in his resurrection. By the way, I think my perception is that a reason that there’s pushback among translators not to capitalize the s there is that then it seems like Paul is denying the distinction between the second and third persons of the Trinity.

Nancy Guthrie
Yeah, it could create some Trinity misunderstanding, like they melded into one. That’s one way that could sound.

Richard Gaffin
He’s not addressing the eternal, essential relationship between the second and third persons of the Trinity, but what is true of who Christ is with his assumed humanity as the last Adam. Our whole salvation depends on the change that took place for Jesus himself when he went from what is described as his state of humiliation into his state of exaltation. He is now a glorified Christ, which he was not prior to his resurrection and ascension. I think it’s very useful to see the statement of Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:45—"the last Adam became life-giving spirit"—as kind of a one sentence commentary on what Pentecost is all about. So in John 14;18 when Jesus says, “I’m about to go to Father. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you,” he’s going to go up physically, bodily, and ascend, but the Spirit is going to come down—Pentecost—and the presence of the Spirit is the presence of the glorified Christ. And that’s why it’s better, as he says later in John 16:7. The ultimate best will be when we can see Jesus. But for now, we have the benefits of who he is as ascended through his presence in the Holy Spirit. You could even say, in a manner of speaking, that when the Spirit comes at Pentecost, Jesus comes to be with the church.

Nancy Guthrie
Tommy, how would you respond to somebody who hears what Dr. Gaffin is saying and says, I don’t know. It sounds like we are losing some kind of distinction between the risen, glorified Christ and the Spirit?

Tommy Keene
I think there’s this good desire because we want to protect the fullness of the deity of Jesus. Jesus doesn’t become God in his resurrection. So there’s this good desire to protect the integrity of the Trinity and the integrity of the fully divine personhood of Jesus. But we do need to remember that he’s the God-man and that his human nature is not an accident. It’s not incidental. He has a true human will, a true human body, a true human soul, a true human mind. All of those things were affirmed in Chalcedon, and we need to maintain them as well. And he came to be a human. He participated in our Adamic nature precisely because the whole plan from the beginning is to put a son of Adam on the throne of the heavens and the earth. It was to be Adam, but Adam brought not life but death. We’re on a worldwide search for a new son of Adam, a new King, a new Messiah who can sit on the throne of the cosmos who will bring life, who will bring the Spirit, who will bring eschatological blessings that have been promised from the very beginning—the fruit of the tree of eternal life. That search ultimately culminates in the God-man Jesus Christ. And so it is vitally important that we maintain a change, as you put it, between his humiliation and his exaltation. Because in his humiliation, he is taking up his full Adamic nature, second Adam, and taking on the fullness of the curse, our sin, unto death. If it ends there, it is not a good story. If it ends there, Paul says we are worse off than other men because the one we were hoping for faces judgment. But it doesn’t end there. The second Adam is raised. He receives the Spirit and sits on the throne and pours out the Spirit on the believer. When Jesus in John says to the disciples, “I can’t tell you all the things now because you won’t understand,” it’s not because they’re dumb. It’s because they don’t have the Spirit. “And I can’t send you the Spirit now because I’m not yet ascended.” So something has to change. Something has to happen. And the thing that has to happen is the Messiah has to come into his glory, come into the inheritance before the Spirit can be poured out on the earth.

25:57 - Why Was Pentecost Essential?

Nancy Guthrie
Dr. Gaffin, I want to read a sentence to you. This is a sentence I had to quote in my book, Saved, because it was so profound. And then I want you to expand on it. You said, “Pentecost is part of a single unified complex of events and is epical on the order that they are. In their mutual, once-for-all significance, the one event could not have occurred without the others.” One way this impacted me is as I seek to teach the Scriptures and want to be a good communicator of the gospel, I think a significant step I took forward was always making sure I get to the death and resurrection of Jesus, which is so central to the gospel. But I think one thing you’ve convinced me of in this book is that that’s actually rather limited, because Pentecost is part of this single unified complex of events. And it’s leading me to begin, even though it can be cumbersome at times, to talk about Jesus’s life, death, resurrection, and ascension, and also Pentecost and his anticipated return—this whole complex of events is what does now and will ultimately bring us the salvation that we long for. So will you just talk about that a little bit? Why is Pentecost so essential and, in a sense, part of this one unified complex of events?

Richard Gaffin
I think I was prompted to put it that way largely because of the way in which Peter expresses himself in the sermon that he preaches on the day of Pentecost. In Acts 2, the striking phenomena take place—the fire tongues, the speaking in tongues—and Peter addresses the crowd, explaining what’s happened here. And I think it’s always striking. The Spirit comes at Pentecost, and the sermon that Peter preaches focuses on Christ, not the Spirit. Not to set up a false opposition, but it’s a Christ-centered sermon, and it’s particularly the way he expresses himself around Acts 2:36. He makes reference to the death of Christ.

Nancy Guthrie
“This Jesus whom you crucified.”

Richard Gaffin
Exactly. And so he brings that in, but he focuses more on the resurrection. And then with the resurrection, he talks about the heavenly ascension, and particularly the fact that in the ascension, having ascended, he has received the promise of the Father, which is the Holy Spirit. So it seems to me very clearly that his death, resurrection, ascension, which are all one time events—we don’t look for Christ to be continually crucified or resurrected or ascended; they are once for all events, as we can say—and so similarly, his reception of the Spirit in the ascension is a once-for-all event. Peter uses that language. And then I think the giving of the Spirit is seen as the reflex, you might say. So it’s the way in which those events, particularly what takes place on the day of Pentecost, the ascension, is linked to the death and resurrection of Christ that disposed me to talk about an event complex. In other words, you can’t have one without the other. And what Tommy was just saying, reminding us that a dead Christ without the resurrection leaves us in a hopeless situation. In a similar way, an ascended Christ without giving the church the Holy Spirit leaves us totally bereft.

Nancy Guthrie
Tommy, we in the church have a lot of focus on Christmas in regard the incarnation, this one-time event. We have a lot of focus on Easter—Good Friday and Easter, death and resurrection. But I think most of my growing up life, there’s been very little emphasis on ascension and Pentecost, at least in the churches that I’ve been. What’s that about?

Tommy Keene
It’s kind of ironic, really, because the only Christian holiday mentioned in the New Testament is Pentecost. Paul says to the Ephesians, or no, who is it? Well, he says somewhere—that was good enough for the author of Hebrews, so I’ll do the same—it says somewhere that he wants to be back in Jerusalem by Pentecost. So it’s a significant marker, moment, redemptive historical fulfillment. And I think you’re exactly right. I don’t think we, especially in the Protestant tradition, perhaps because we’re so focused on evangelism and getting people saved, perhaps because we’re very individualistic, regardless of the diagnosis, we don’t focus on the resurrection and the ascension. And that is the event that saves. And I think it actually opens up huge sections of the New Testament that would be otherwise opaque. This is John’s concern in Revelation 5, this worldwide search for someone who will reign, for someone who is qualified to open the scroll and implement the grand plan of God to bring about the fullness of life for all things. That’s what we’re waiting for. That’s all of redemptive history is this search. And it is fruitless, and John weeps, and then a lion who’s actually a lamb comes forward and is qualified to open the scroll.

Nancy Guthrie
Which is a picture of the ascension, is it not, from heaven’s perspective? And what we’ve read about in Acts 1 is from earth’s perspective.

Tommy Keene
It’s Acts 1 and 2. John gets to see the ascension twice. He gets to see it on earth. In Acts 1 he watches Jesus ascend. And then at the end of his life, through this vision, he gets to see it again this time from heaven, Jesus coming and taking up the scroll and beginning to implement the plan of God.

32:50 - Was Pentecost a One-Time Event?

Nancy Guthrie
We can sometimes say the gospel is Christ died for you. And we would all agree, yes.

Tommy Keene
It has to be that.

Nancy Guthrie
Christ was raised for you. Christ has ascended and is enthroned, is seated at the right hand of God interceding for you. So we need that ascension and intercession. And what I’m hearing is also that Christ has poured out the Spirit on you. And all of those things are so essential to the good news of the gospel. So we’ve talked about what happened in Acts 2, and we’ve talked about it in terms of being a one-time event that is not repeated. So how do we connect what happens in Acts 2 with what we read about in Acts 8, when the Spirit falls on the Samaritans? And then we get to Acts 10 when Peter goes to the home of Cornelius, and the Spirit falls on these God-fearing Gentiles. And then we get to Acts 19, and we meet these disciples. We’re not sure who they are disciples of; they only know of the baptism of John, it says, but then they come into full knowledge of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the Spirit falls on them. So help us with that. Pentecost was a one-time event; and yet throughout the book of Acts we see what can seem like repeated events of Pentecost?

Richard Gaffin
A question that can be debated is, What is the purpose of the book of Acts? And that could be answered in different ways. But I think one thing that is clear is that one purpose Luke has is to document that what Jesus said to the apostles in Acts 1:8, “you will be my witnesses to Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the ends of the earth,” Luke is concerned to document that that apostolic task has been fulfilled. So I always want to accent, and this is I think what is not sufficiently appreciated the way it is, that what Acts does is document a completed apostolic task that is also universal. The universal gets more to your question. How is it universal? Well, I think it’s pretty clear that the geographical terms in Acts 1:8 have an ethnic qualification. Jerusalem and Judea are Jews. Samaria are the half breeds. And then, and this can be debated, but I think the ends of the earth is a reference to the Gentiles, which is where Acts ends with Paul in Rome with the apostolic task being realized in Rome. If you go back to the passage, Acts 8 is Samaria. See, it’s not just any individuals, but it’s the spread, if you will, of the apostolic fulfillment being realized, first first among the Jews, then the Samaritans (half Jew, half Gentile). And then beginning in Acts 10, and really a whole latter part of the book of Acts, focuses on Paul and his ministry to the Gentiles, which actually has him dealing with a lot of Jews too. But sometimes folks look at the way Acts ends. Here we have the apostle in prison and in chains. What a downer. When you look at the text, particularly in the Greek text, it ends with an adverb. It says over a two year period he’s teaching the things concerning Christ and preaching the kingdom of God, and he’s doing this “unhindered.” And I read that almost like an exclamation mark. What Luke set out to document, the job is finished.

Nancy Guthrie
Ends of the earth, check mark. Accomplished.

Richard Gaffin
Yes.

Nancy Guthrie
I have so many other things I would love to continue talking with you, Dr. Gaffin, but we’ve already taken more of your time than I anticipated. But thank you so much. Thank you for your love for the Scriptures and your love for Christ and your love for God’s people that all comes together into the teaching ministry you’ve had over many decades now and in books like Perspectives on Pentecost and In the Fullness of Time. You have really helped many people, including me and Tommy, to understand these very significant things about who Jesus is and who the Spirit is and how he is working, both in redemptive history in the past and in our present to accomplish our salvation. Thank you.

Richard Gaffin
I just so much appreciate this opportunity. It’s been wonderful to be able to talk with you both.

Nancy Guthrie
And thank you, Tommy, for adding your insight.

Nancy Guthrie

Nancy Guthrie teaches the Bible at her home church, Cornerstone Presbyterian Church in Franklin, Tennessee, as well as at conferences around the country and internationally, including her Biblical Theology Workshop for Women. She is the author of numerous books and the host of the Help Me Teach the Bible podcast with the Gospel Coalition. She and her husband founded Respite Retreats for couples who have faced the death of a child, and they are cohosts of the GriefShare video series. 

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